Posts by Cold Steel

38

I went to the DC!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

it sucked.

the co said that the term, " the truth " means " truthful understanding of the scriptures.

" he also said that the truth does not change.

Cold Steel

Badges? Badges?? They don't need no stinking badges!

38

I went to the DC!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

it sucked.

the co said that the term, " the truth " means " truthful understanding of the scriptures.

" he also said that the truth does not change.

Cold Steel

Yeah, they cover their tracks and tell you don't google "Jehovah's Witness"...

Really? How do they tell you not to do things like this? Is it just council or what?

There isn't one person in the history of all mankind that has ever not died.

Well, I've never died...not yet. And biblically, there are some who are reputed to have not died:

1. Enoch: Taken into heaven prior to the great flood.

2. Moses: Joshua said Moses died, but no one saw the body. Later, Satan was said to have entered
into a contest with Michael over the "body" of Moses. Was the contest over Moses' translation?

3. Elijah: Taken into a fiery chariot, he is reputed to be taken into heaven. Prophecy states that he will
return before the great and dreadfjul day of the Lord.

4. John: The apostles got into a snit because the word was getting around that John had been promised
life until Jesus' Second Coming. But Jesus reminded them that he never said John wouldn't die,
only that if he willed John to "tarry" on Earth to that time, what was that to them?

9

Believing in Two Gods

by NeverKnew in

i'm trying to come up with "dumb householder" queries for if i'm ever graced with another door-knocking jw.. if i were to say, "are you the ones who believe in 2 gods," (in reference to christ being "a god" in john 1:1) would i get an answer other than "no"?

i'm not asking what my response subsequent to the answer should be.

i'm cheating and asking what they'll tell me off the tops of their heads since surely they've been asked this before.. .

Cold Steel

That's an argument most Christians can't win.

How many gods are there in the Universe? How many make up "God"?

We know that the Father is God,
The Son is God, and,
The Holy Spirit is God

It's like asking how many people are in a family? Or, how many people are in a quorum?

God (Elohim being plural) isn't physically ONE God. It can be three gods, five gods, five hundred, five thousand or five million. There's no set limit.

Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the apostles, "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE."

This clearly means that in the same way WE are ONE, Father, THEY should be ONE. Does this mean that they should be physically ONE? Not at all. In fact, the apostle John makes it fairly clear that those who become co-heirs with Christ become ONE with God. That means that as children of God, we can become like our Heavenly Father and like Jesus Christ.

It's a doctrine called theosis.

“ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. ” (Psalm 82:6)

43

The TOPIC which may never be discussed!

by Terry in

question: how does the leadership of jehovah's witnesses instruct its members to prepare for the eventual elder care of its members?.

answer: it pretends it will never happen!.

is this responsible leadership or some kind of cognitive dissonant malfeasance?.

Cold Steel

This is incredible news, and it makes me sick to think how they're ignoring this problem. Our seniors have done so much for us, now we're to abandon them because the JWs believe Armageddon is right around the corner. It is, but it isn't. World events are quickly taking us to the last great battle of our time, but Gog, the Beast, Antichrist, whatever you want to call him, has not manifested himself. The temple has not been built by the Jews (Rev. 11), the tribulation has not even begun, nor have the two prophets been called who will use God's power to stay the enemy's hand. Many things need to take place before the return of the Savior/Jehovah (see Zechariah 12-14, Ezekiel 37-38).

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The Jehovah's Witness exegesis experts, not liking things like the above, simply ignore it! A child could explain this prophecy because it tells us who, what, why and where. Just not when. And what's really ironic is that this is the great battle of Armageddon that the JWs claim to be waiting for. Jesus wasn't crucified in New York, London, Rome, Athens or Paducah! He was crucified in Jerusalem.

Back in the early 70s, I recall the JWs were expecting Armageddon to happen at any moment. There may be a bit of perverse justice in that many of the JWs at the time weren't lifting a finger for their futures or their childrens' futures. Now they're the seniors who have few, if anyone at all, to care for them. And even if their kids wanted to, they're too busy flipping burgers at McDonald's because their parents and grandparents didn't provide for their educations. What goes around comes around. Ask any Witness today to explain Armageddon and none of them has a clue. I have an entire Watchtower entitled ARMAGEDDON!! on the cover, and I didn't know any more about it after I read it than before. Yahweh gave us prophecies so we would know the times and the seasons, and when his coming was nigh. But the folks making the horrendous decisions about the future will soon enough find themselves senior citizens with no one to take care of them.

And who will they blame?

165

Do Animals Have Souls?

by Cold Steel in

i know most jehovah's witnesses believe in the soul sleeping doctrine.

by this, given that neither man nor beast has a spirit, but that they do possess souls (or "intelligences" unique to themselves).

where this intelligence resides between death and resurrection is more than a passing interest, but again, assuming that yehweh can recreate one's distict soul, does the society believe that animals have souls?

Cold Steel

I think this discussion has gotten a little bit out of control. First, it has NOTHING to do with Mormonism. Just because I happen to be one doesn't mean a thing. It doesn't mean I'm trying to convert anyone to my beliefs (since I've believed animals have spirits long before I was a Mormon).

It also doesn't mean that animals or human have spirits, souls, whatever you want to call it. Originally, I was going to title this thread, "Do YOU Believe Animals Have Spirits?" and subsequently decided to delete the words "YOU" and "Believe" for clarity and brevity. I also intended for the thread to be lighter in nature and not so datgum dogmatic.

Who among us can definitively say whether animals or humans have spirits, anyway? There's no way to prove it scientifically or theologically. I just wanted your opinions. Someone asked me what Mormon beliefs were regarding the matter and I replied; however, as someone else pointed out, it's completely moot as the correctness of Mormonism means very little in a discussion of non-Mormons. Quoting Mormon scripture or Mormon authorities would gain me nothing, which is to say that our opinions and views have no more merit than anyone elses.

I have an evangelical friend who believes that while humans have spirits, animals were created for man's use, to be used as companions, transportation, defense and food. After we're resurrected, humans will have no need of these things, and so they will blink out and we'll get over it as we keep developing.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in spirits, but they believe in a "soul" -- that is, intelligence and self-awareness. When we die, it's like flipping off a light switch. Later, Jehovah God will switch back on all the lights in a process they call resurrection. But he won't turn on the lights of animals. With the wicked, he will flip on their lights, judge them and flip them off again.

Then there are my atheist friends who declare that neither animals nor humans have "souls" or spirits. They point out there's no evidence at all that anyone or anything has a spirit, and further, that when people or animals die, there is no change in a body's weight. That said, just a few years ago, no one really was able to comprehend quantum physics. Scientists have been able to create anti-matter and have found certain particles that can exist simultaneously in different "universes" or deminsions. When I was born in 1953, none of this was on the table. And dark matter also was unheard of. So just because scientists have no evidence NOW of spirits doesn't prove anything. Of course the burden of proof is upon believers, not science, and is a matter of faith.

165

Do Animals Have Souls?

by Cold Steel in

i know most jehovah's witnesses believe in the soul sleeping doctrine.

by this, given that neither man nor beast has a spirit, but that they do possess souls (or "intelligences" unique to themselves).

where this intelligence resides between death and resurrection is more than a passing interest, but again, assuming that yehweh can recreate one's distict soul, does the society believe that animals have souls?

Cold Steel

LisaRose: Pretty pictures of cats do not substitute for a serious discussion. I no longer believe in what I was taught by a fraudulent faith from a mythical book and therefore I must also reject such fanciful notions as souls, spirits and ghosts.

You’re right. Photos mean nothing. Our discussions also ultimately mean nothing, as this is just a thread of personal opinions. Nothing in the Bible (“mythical book”) tells us one way or the other whether animals have spirits. And even if it did, many people (like you) who wouldn’t accept it. In my view...opinion...belief, souls, or intelligence, is eternal, having no beginning or end. As one of my professors pointed out, if you take your hand and put it on the top of your head, “that’s above you.” If you then put your hand on your nose, “that’s under, or below, you.” Still using your hand, you can map out “you” very simply. Obviously, it’s your brain, and all ancient cultures realized it. There’s nothing profound in this observation, but still, whether the brain is the depository of what defines YOU, or whether it simply houses your intelligence, that’s the issue.

Cofty: The question of conscious existence after death is a scientific question. Supernatural claims can be tested in a controlled environment and proven to be false. The idea of animals surviving death is just wishful thinking. Where do you draw the line? Horses, dogs, fish, birds, insects, bacteria?

I don’t draw a line, neither do I believe the existence of spirits and ghosts, and near death experiences, can be proven one way or the other. I’ve had personal experiences that have proven these things to my satisfaction. There are genuinely haunted places all over the world, and people who are genuinely possessed by evil spirits. Many people won’t agree that such is the case, and they’re entitled to their opinion. I’d love to take folks who are unbelievers like you into any one of a number of abandoned asylums, where people were horribly abused. I think I could change your mind in short order. I had a close friend who lived in a troubled house. It was very old, and the things he and his family experienced were frightening. They would hear footsteps on the floor above them, once or twice followed by a terrible crashing sound, as though someone had pushed over a dresser with the drawers full. When they went upstairs to inspect what happened, nothing would be out of place. At night, he said, light would sometimes appear on the wall, looking very much like car lights from outside. The strange thing about it, he added, is that if you held your hand up over the light to see where it was coming from, there would be no shadow. Apparently you could wave your hand in front of the lit wall and there would be no shadow. I never experienced these things personally, but I knew my friend’s character and he was an impeccably honest chap. His mother and father also backed up his stories, and they impressed me as also being honest folks.

Qcmbr: Please check PM.

165

Do Animals Have Souls?

by Cold Steel in

i know most jehovah's witnesses believe in the soul sleeping doctrine.

by this, given that neither man nor beast has a spirit, but that they do possess souls (or "intelligences" unique to themselves).

where this intelligence resides between death and resurrection is more than a passing interest, but again, assuming that yehweh can recreate one's distict soul, does the society believe that animals have souls?

Cold Steel

Geeesh, Heaven, I've had the same experiences. I thought it was just me. I'd be lying on the bed and would feel the distinct presence of my previous cat. Then I would feel something jump on the bed and I'd turn around half expecting to see him. I also awakened in the middle of the night with a pressure against my legs, and yet I knew there was nothing there. But I'm happy to hear that others have had the experience.

I like moggys a lot and I had a weird experience I've never been able to shake off. I got up one night to look for the cat and he wasn't at the front door, so I checked the back door. I saw Moggy out on the deck and I opened the door and called him. He came running over and I opened the door and he slipped in. I closed the door and began talking to him, but when I turned around he wasn't there. He normally comes with me over to the steps, then waits while I give him a rubdown. During the rubdown, he rubs his head against the wooden posts overlooking the downstairs. Then we go upstairs where I feed him.

But he wasn't at the bottom of the stairs, so I began calling him, but he was nowhere. That's when I began remembering that commercial about the lady who accidentally lets in the racoon. When I couldn't locate the cat, I went back upstairs and closed the bedroom door and went to bed. The next day I searched the entire house with a flashlight and a .22LR pistol. I wasn't intending to shoot anything, but I wanted to have some sort of security. (My sister had been bit by a racoon once and had to undergo rabies shots when it turned out to be rabid.)

Well, couldn't find the cat or racoon, but Moggy came in the next morning as usual. I can't imagine what, if anything, I could have let in, but I had just buried my parents' moggy and I wondered if it might have been him. But it was about as real an experience I've ever had. I wasn't sleepy, the memory wasn't muted or indistinct in any way; I was sure I let in a cat...a tiger striped cat. So go figure.

38

I went to the DC!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

it sucked.

the co said that the term, " the truth " means " truthful understanding of the scriptures.

" he also said that the truth does not change.

Cold Steel

Early Christianity focussed on a hoped for 'kingdom' centering on the return of Christ. When that did not happen in the expected time, the focus changed to everlasting soul-life in heaven.

Althouth this is a popular view, there's really no substance to it. Recall that Jesus spent 40 days with his disciples teaching them the mysteries. Given the prophecies put forth by Jesus and his apostles, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the dispersion of Judah to the four corners of the earth, a long period of apostasy that would last some 1260 years (Rev. 12:6), the fall of the Roman Empire and the establishment of independent nations, some strong and some weak (Daniel 2). They then wrote about a time of the "restoration of all things" (Acts 3), the restoration of Judah to the land of its inheritance, the rise of a Gentile despot called "the Beast," and his invasion of Jerusalem with a vast army (Rev. 11, Zech. 12-14). Then, after a fierce battle for the beleaguered city, Jesus appears and descends upon the Mount of Olives with ten thousands of his saints, he destroys the Beast and his army, sparing only a sixth of them. This is the true story of Armageddon.

The apostles knew all of the above because Jesus told them and they passed it on. It really wasn't something that could occur in their lifetimes. Jesus also told them that they would be killed and that wolves would enter the church not sparing the flock. Just before the Romans marched on Jerusalem, the apostles received revelation telling them to move the saints out of the city and into cities like Pella in the north, and they completely escaped the destruction of the Holy City.

Given that they understood prophecy, the Christian apostles knew all the things above had to be fulfilled. There's no way they could come to pass in their lifetimes, especially the 1260 years!

165

Do Animals Have Souls?

by Cold Steel in

i know most jehovah's witnesses believe in the soul sleeping doctrine.

by this, given that neither man nor beast has a spirit, but that they do possess souls (or "intelligences" unique to themselves).

where this intelligence resides between death and resurrection is more than a passing interest, but again, assuming that yehweh can recreate one's distict soul, does the society believe that animals have souls?

Cold Steel

Interesting discussion so far. Many different opinions coming from people of varying backgrounds.

But watch this video. It makes me believe there is good in the world...and we know there is evil. It's a delicate balance and I can't believe that with the order of the Universe, and the beauty, that good ultimately overrules evil.

The Story of the Crow and the Cat

165

Do Animals Have Souls?

by Cold Steel in

i know most jehovah's witnesses believe in the soul sleeping doctrine.

by this, given that neither man nor beast has a spirit, but that they do possess souls (or "intelligences" unique to themselves).

where this intelligence resides between death and resurrection is more than a passing interest, but again, assuming that yehweh can recreate one's distict soul, does the society believe that animals have souls?

Cold Steel

By "soul" I mean the thing within you that thinks and is. It's the thing that leaves when you die. Whether that soul is composed of simply brain cells or whether there's a spirit is moot. No one can prove one way or the other that people or animals have spirits. My initial post simply asks for your opinion. Me, I'd be crushed if I continued to exist but my animals didn't.

I have close friends of other religions and beliefs, and some have told me that they think humans, being the crowning creation of God, continue on after death. But animals were created for man as companions, creatures of nature, food, transportation and protection. Some have horribly mistreated animals and hunted them for sport. My uncle, sadly, killed many animals and birds simply for recreation. He had the heads of mountain goats and other animals mounted around his house and in closets. He especially enjoyed going to Metropolis and shooting crows with a shotgun.

One fellow, a minister in Paducah, Kentucky, had stuffed animals all over his house. I was assigned to write a newspaper article on him and when I interviewed him, he told me that he considered himself a modern "Noah," and the animal collection was a way to let school children see "God's glory of creation." He saw nothing wrong with what he was doing, traveling all over the world to kill exotic animals, and worse, he got his income from being a televangelist. I let him talk and quoted him accurately. The photographer took some astounding photos, but he wasn't able to restrain his distaste for the man. When the article came out, he was initially pleased, but then came a wave of criticism that caused a dramatic decrease in his contributions. First, we got a ton of mail, virtually all of it venting fury over what he was doing. Then the local television news station got ahold of him and he tried to answer this criticism and of course he only made it worse. He thought if he explained it from his point of view, people would see the wisdom behind it. Instead, another wave of criticism hit him and when I left, his preaching show was virtually dead...and he had no idea why people were steamed. After all, isn't that why God created those animals? What better way of showing the glory of God's creations than going to other parts of the world and blowing them into eternity?